To listen to Gilad Atzmon deconstructing antisemitism click here (or link at the podcast at the bottom of this post)

 

To listen to David Aaronovitch reading Gilad Atzmon click here

 

To listen to David Aaronovitch’s tantrum click here

 

To listen to Atzmon confronted with an outraged Jewish member of the audience click here

 

To listen to a disappointed member of the audience click here

 

To listen to Aaronovitch confronted with a Jewish member of the audience click here

 

To listen to Aaronovitch’s closing remarks click here

 

To listen to Atzmon’s closing remarks click here

 

 

Last Wednesday, I participated in a panel that could have been a breakthrough debate on issues having to do with ‘Antisemitism’. The event was part of The Sunday Times Oxford Literary Festival and it took place at Oxford University. The discussion was moderated by the legendary BBC reporter Martin Bell. On the panel we had Nick Cohen and David Aaronovitch.  They were there to elaborate on the case of ‘new antisemitism’. Interestingly enough, Aaronovitch and Cohen were the prominent advocates of the illegal war in Iraq through the British press. They are also notoriously famous for their  Islamophobic ranting, as if this is not enough, they were also caught supporting the latest Israeli deadly campaign in Gaza. I was there to argue that antisemitism is a spin, it is a myth, I was there to deliver a very simple message: there is no such a thing as antisemitism.

 

I was looking forward for the event. I gathered that it might not be easy confronting Britain’s loudest Ziocon lobbyists alone. In fact I was wrong. It was a piece of cake. It was almost an effortless task to expose and demolish the lame Zionist argument, mainly because there is no such argument. Zionism is not a dialogical narrative, it is rather a pragmatic ruthless practice that seeks control of land and discourse.

 

I may as well say it, unlike Aaronovitch and Cohen, I believe in dialogue and I support every form of well-argued debate. In fact, I would debate anyone, whether it is a Nazi or a Zionist, whether it is a white supremacist or a Judeocentric Islamophobe agitator.  In my world, platform is granted to anyone who endorses a well-mannered conversation. However, last Wednesday, both Aaronovitch and Cohen didn’t want to debate or to argue. They believed that finishing me off would serve their cause. Funnily enough, not only did they fail, they ended up on the defence, begging for the audience to stop applauding and running out of sympathy.

 

Sadly, the panel was not very effective in elaborating on the given topic (Anti Semitism  – Alive And Well in Europe?). David Aaronovitch, who happened to be the first to talk, insisted that rather than discussing the subject, he would score more points citing the best of my published Jewels. He was determined to convince the audience that I was the lowest of the low and I should have never been invited to such a prestigious platform. This is not a joke. Aaronovitch who is notoriously famous for lobbying for a war that that has left (so far) 1.5 million civilians dead, a person that is engaged in spreading vile anti left and Islamophobic Zionised propaganda, is convinced that he is entitled to preach to the public who should participate in the discourse.  Aaronovitch foolishly anticipated that once he read my words, a gasp of resentment towards me would spread in the marquee. The deluded man must have invested an enormous amount of energy gathering these endless quotes. He must have read each of my papers, picking what he thoughtlessly and Zionistly interpreted as ‘outrageous thoughts’. I, on my side, was rather thrilled and amused. It doesn’t happen that often that people read my materials with such enthusiasm on such a prestigious platform. Neither myself nor my most devoted readers could do a better job presenting my ideas. 

 

Sadly for Aaronovitch, his plan didn’t work out, there was not a single noticeable reaction in the room.  There was not a single gasp of resentment.  And yet, the truth must be said, Aaronovitch is a very talented melodramatic epic performer. He brilliantly over-dramaticised my ideas, he beautifully stressed the various variations of the different ‘J’ words, he would then slow down, stare at me with exaggerated contempt, he would giggle expecting the crowed to join him. But they didn’t.

 

For some reason that is far beyond me, Aaronovitch and Cohen failed to realise that Oxford University was not exactly a Yeshiva. It was not an occupied territory either.  It wasn’t down to them or the Israeli Hasbara Committee to decide who was entitled to engage in a public debate. If anything, the two warmongers should have had the minimum intellectual integrity to ban themselves from the public eye for advocating a war that led to a genocide. The two warmongers should have enough honesty to realise that if there is antisemitism, as they say, they must be the root cause for such a phenomenon.

 

Aaronovitch failed to grasp that people who attend literary events are largely curious and open minded, they are far more interested in listening to some enlightening ideas rather than being indoctrinated or patronised by a rightwing Zionist propagandist agitator. 

 

Seemingly, Aaronovitch failed to realise that people out there do read the news from time to time. They read about Charles Freeman and the Jewish Lobby, they read about swindler Madoff, Lord Cash Machine Levy, Proxy donor David Abrahams, Labour Friends of Israel, Alan Greenspan and the credit crunch. People out there do realise that more than just a single prominent Zionist Jew is caught in the eye of the current storms (Iraq, finance, Gaza). Aaronovitch, who by his own admission, has been monitoring my writing for years, should have known that NO ONE out of the Jewish ghetto is offended by my observations about Jewish excessive lobbying and Zionist power. If anything, my stand against tribal politics makes me more and more popular within far bigger circles. 

 

Needless to say, I myself have never sought this kind of fame. I am a Jazz musician, I run a very rewarding musical career. When it comes to my intervention on Jewish identity, I write what I regard to be the truth, realising that there maybe more than one truth. I publish my thoughts while knowing that my truth today may be shaken tomorrow. My task is very simple. I try to be coherent just to make sure that at least I myself manage to follow my thread of thoughts. I am aware of the fact that my writing may devastate some, more than once I myself happen to be concerned with the ideas I managed to reach.  Unlike Cohen and Aaronovitch, for me it has never been a political battle, it has never been about power or scoring a win.  It was always about ethics and intellectual integrity. Seemingly, ethics and intellectual honesty is exactly what the Ziocons à la Aaronovitch/Cohen lack. Seemingly, it is evidently the shortage of ethical commitment and intellectual integrity that pushes Cohen and Aaronovitch back to where they belong: the insular segregated kosher cyber ghetto.

 

Notably, both Aaronovitch and Cohen are famous for their incredibly deceiving call to “Liberate the Iraqi people”. The two Jewish Chronicle writers claimed to know what the Iraqi people ‘desired’. They were obviously wrong and the total Western defeat in Iraq proves it beyond doubt. It is obviously understandable and expectable that two Zionist Londoners would fail to grasp the true will of the Iraqi people. Yet, one would expect Aaronovitch and Cohen to know ‘something’ about the middle class crowd in Oxford.  At the end of the day, Aaronovitch and Cohen were raised in the UK and educated in British Universities. In spite of them promoting Zionist propaganda in the midst of the British media, they are still British, they should have known better.  I would also expect that after 200 years of ‘Jewish assimilation’, the tribal activists would learn something about their neighbours’ appetite. Apparently Aaronovitch and Cohen didn’t. The enthusiastic reception of my intervention drove Aaronovitch into a vile tantrum. “Shame on you” he shouted at the applauding Oxford crowd. Not before too long, Aaronovitch was caught on tape blaming HIS audience for being antisemitic. Clearly, on the recording, sporadic members of the audience are heard giggling at the embarrassing sight of a neurotic outburst of a decaying Neocon. 

 

I do realise that my performance in Oxford was actually very symbolic in its resemblance to the success of the Iraqi resistance: though my English is rather broken, my grammar is faulty, my resources are limited, in spite of me being sluggish and slightly messy, the truth was on my side, or shall I say: the truth is in our side.  As far as public debate is concerned, Jewish tribalism, Zionism and Neocon precepts are indefensible.   We will win in every intellectual battle against those warmongers just because we are ethical, genuine and coherent. All we have to do is to survive their endless spin and slander.

 

Once Aaronovitch ended citing my ‘pearls’. Nick Cohen took the platform. He spoke about the Elders Of Zion. Like Aaronovitch, he failed to address the subject. It is clear that Zionist lobbyists really believe that focussing on a 19th century text would divert the attention from the current powerful elders who lobby for more and more global conflicts and biblical plunder. Cohen, I guess, must be convinced that as long as the protocols are alive in our thoughts, he may be able to advocate wars without us noticing it. He must be a fool. We do see him, we see it all and we do not like what we see.

 

“I refuse to accept the premise of the debate,” I told the people in Oxford. Antisemitism is a misleading notion. It is there to give the impression that opposition to Jewish politics is racially motivated. However, Jews are not a race nor they are in any proximity of any recognised racial continuum. Since Jews are not a race (though can be very racist) their opposition, at least currently, is not racially orientated or motivated whatsoever! 

 

Antisemitism is nothing but spin, it is there to silence criticism of Israel, Jewish nationalism, Jewish politics and Jewish lobbies around the world. Rather than talking about antisemitism, we better talk about the rise of anti-Jewish feelings.

 

I am more than willing to admit that there is indeed more than one piece of evidence of growing resentment towards Jewishness and I am referring here to Jewish ideology and Jewish politics.  Yet, in a liberal society, political and ideological criticism is supposed to be a fully legitimate endeavour. As it happens, there is a growing rage towards Jewish politics and national politics in particular, but this shouldn’t take us by surprise considering the crimes that are committed locally and globally by Zionists and Neocons, whether it is Olmert’s genocidal practice in Palestine or Aaronovitch/Cohen lobbying for a war against Israel’s enemies and last pockets of resistance.

 

I was also willing to admit that some innocent ethnic Jews are caught in the midst of all this. This is indeed a serious problem and I do not have a simple answer to offer.  Yet, I would mention that my wife, my kids, and a few of my band members who happen to be of Jewish origin have never come across any form of antisemitic abuse. If we have ever noticed any abuse, it was somehow always Jewish violence against us in the form of death threats, smears, slander and spin.

 

In the light of this very simple observation, 2 questions must be asked.

1.    How is it that the campaigners against anti Semitism such as Aaronovitch and Cohen happen to be also muddled up with some ludicrous Islamophobic statements?

 

The answer is very simple. Those who preach to us about antisemitism are neither humanists nor universalists, they are just banal tribal activists that are committed to the interests of their ethnic group and that group alone. The very few sporadic gentiles who advocate this immoral discourse do it for the sake of political reasons. Within the Jewish terminology they are called the ‘Sabbath Goy’(1). They are there to work for the Jews and they are fully rewarded accordingly.

 

2.    We have good reason to believe that Aaronovitch and Cohen know very well that Jews are not descendents of people of the Semitic origin and do not form a racial continuum. Why then do they try to pretend that the negation towards Jews is racially motivated?

 

Again the answer is rather obvious. The Jewish ethnic campaigner will spin and cheat and spread lies because Jewish ideology (right, left and centre) cannot be defended or argued in rational or ethical terms. All Jewish national politic discourses are exclusivist, supremacist and racially orientated (though Jews are far from being a race, every form of Jewish politics is categorically racist to the bone. It is always about different formations of a ‘Jews only’ club).  

 

To a certain extent, I was very lucky to share a platform with Aaronovitch and Cohen for the simple reason that they are the ultimate embodiment of tribal activism and war lobbying in this country. Aaronovitch and Cohen, amongst a few other Ziocon protagonists, are the root cause of resentment towards Jewish political lobbying. It was almost entertaining to hear the Jewish Chronicle writer Aaronovitch denying being a Jew, presenting the lame pathetic argument that he had been in a synagogue just “3 times in his entire life”. Aaronovitch must have thought that he may get away with this new spin. He obviously knows that Jews do not have to believe in God, they do not have to go to synagogues, he must know also that even one visit in a synagogue is probably far more than the vast majority of humanity has ever experienced.  What makes Aaronovitch into a Jewish tribal campaigner is, for instance, the fact that he is listed on the Israel Hasbara (2) Committee as one of their authors. The Israeli propaganda (Hasbara) Committee, which lists Aaronovitch as one of its authors declares that its aim is: 

 

“To promote understanding of Judaism and Israel”

 

Do you know any goy who is affiliated with the ‘promotion’ of Judaism AND Israel? Oh yes, Aaronovitch, has one spinning line he has yet to explore. He may suggest to us that he is actually a ‘Christian Zionist’. 

 

What makes Aaronovitch into a Jew has nothing to do with his religious affiliation or belief.  It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of his parents. It has nothing to do with the shape of his nose or the tip of his knob. What makes Aaronovitch into a Jew and a Zionist one in particular is his affiliation with the most rabid, notorious, nationalist Jewish political school. What made Aaronovitch so spiteful and despised in Oxford had nothing to do with his father’s origin, it was actually his Zionist politics and Zionised tactics, it was his commitment to Israeli Propaganda, it was the fact that he lobbied for a war that made us all into war criminals, a war that led to a genocide of 1.5 million innocent Iraqi civilians. 

 

Aaronovitch and Cohen may have learned a lesson in Oxford. Aaronovitch pledged never to see me again. Listening to the audio recording of the event and especially to his tantrum he has a very good reason not to. The contemptible Ziocon was exposed. However, in the light of Aaronovitch being listed as an Israeli ‘propaganda author’, and bearing in mind his being a lobbyist for an illegal war, Mr Aaronovitch is not exactly a Western liberal humanist. Seemingly, he is more of an Israeli patriot than a British one. This is something that his readers in The Times must keep in mind once Aaronovitch attempts to drag this country into another devastating global conflict.   


[1] Sabbath Goy (urban dictionary)- Originally, a non-Jew who does work on Sabbath that a Jew cannot do. In modern times, it is a non-Jew who toadies to the every wish and whim of the Jews, especially in politics, or a non-Jew who is heavily supportive of Israel.
 
[2] Hasbara –Propaganda (Hebrew)

 

SEE ALSO: Dima Omar, So What Did We Learn About Anti-Semitism?

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Comments
  1. The Saker says:

    Dear Gilad,

    I listed to the debate and read your article with a great sense of sadness and shame. I am sad and shamed that somebody like you who would “dare” to say something which should be self-evidently obvious to any civilized man (for example: “Jewish tribalism, Zionism and Neocon precepts are indefensible”) would have to be subjected to so much vitriolic vilification, and would be literally “brought on trial” at a public forum (even though its official topic was ‘Antisemitism” and not, one would presume, “how bad Mr Atzmon really is”).

    I know that you are not religious, and I am not in any way making a comparison here, but I would note that this is *exactly* the tactic which was used against Christ: nevermind His message, let’s accuse Him of blasphemy and have Him murdered…

    Though much of the politically correct world proudly and loudly denouces any form of racism, tribalism or religious intolerance, you get vilified for denouncing jewish racism, jewish tribalism and jewish religious bigotry. What a disgrace and shame it is that in the entire so-called “West” only a very few people dare to think or, much less so, actually voice a condemnation of a clearly racist ideology!

    Thanks Gilad, thanks for your courage, your intelligence, your integrity and your honesty! Thanks for being who you are, for being out there and, last but most definintely not least, for your wonderful life-filled music!

    With my deepest admiration,

    The Saker

  2. Gilad says:

    My dear Saker, it is not a problem, listening yesterday to the Audio sample of Aaronovitch outburst proves to me that we are winning there. Aaronovitch/Cohen were convinced that Oxford Uni is an occupied territory, they were proven wrong.

    However, listening to Aaronovitch reading me I must admit, He is very good in it, it is a shame he is the enemy, i would be delighted to hire him for my next show.

    Peace
    G

  3. The Saker says:

    Of course we are winning. The entire charade is ripping at the seams and jewish racism is gradually getting ready to take its rightful place among all the other kind of racisms on the “trash heaps of history” Just look how Apartheid crumbled almost overnight, how Jim Crow is now something which only inbread rednecks support in the USA. Racism is something fundamentally “passe”, quasi-medieval (though it reach its apogee in the late 19th early 20th century of course) and folks like Aaronovitch are really running out of mindtricks to defend it.

    I actually liked his reading very much. I might copy it (minus his comments, of course) and post it on my blog :-))

    Alas, unlike Apartheid, I am afraid that Zionism will not have to good taste of collapsing on itself. If anything the elections in Israel show that the Isareli public thinks that if violence and terror did not solve the problem, *more* violence and terror will. God help us all…

    Peace to you too,

    VS

  4. You did a great job Gilad. I don’t know much about Cohen, but he appears to be pretty lightweight . Aaronovich is a bankrupt hack who finds it hard to keep his irrational mind under control and certainly always fails to put together a cogent argument about anything, resorting instead to childish abuse which can make Tony Greenstein seem almost an intellectual. Of course he avoided the issue around which the dabate was supposed to focus because he has no defence for his absurd advocacy of bankrupt neocon ideas and their slavish support of Zionism. It must be very embarrassing for him to be involved in mutual backslapping with those who openly despise Jews and support Israel only inasmuch as a Zionist victory is a precursor to Armaggeddon and a victory of all righteous Christians. I expect that quite soon he will be on his knees before Rattsinger and follow Blair in conversion to the one true faith.

  5. Gilad says:

    Hi Richard, I must admit that it was rather surprising to see how lame these two were. However, the podium was a very hostile place to be. They didn’t leave me any option but to attack them and to expose them for what they are.

    All it really takes is just to tell the truth in their faces..

    Peace
    G

  6. D Cullum says:

    As Long as everyone does not believe that everyone who is Jewish which is a belief and not and has never been a race are all tarred with the same brush. The world loves the mad sad and bad and we are sold them all the time because the world is chaotic so that they can rule. To me all this hate is not just against the Arabs but back lashing on to the Jewish people who are unhappy with each other, but this is all about how the land is taken and how much blood is spent on it. Britian is still cling to its idea that it is powerful and a force to be listened too while the Govenment fleeces its people so we now have a new level of poverty it is all about the New World Order which will never happen people everywhere has to be will to allow the few to rule the many and that will never happen but as long as they can set race against race they can feel as if they are in control were is all the money well Maxwell told us in Israel, and if David does not like this or Melanie Klein prove it is not .?

  7. Michael says:

    Gilad,
    Thank God someone has taken on this subject with the frankness and fearlessness you have demonstrated in this debate. I grew up Catholic in the midwestern US where I never really encountered the jewish culture or the “jewish question”. I abandoned Christianity and began to practice Yoga In my twenties. I moved to the Catskills in NY state where I began to encounter Jewish culture without really being consciously aware of it (because it’s members seem to deny that it exists for some strange reason). I eventually married a wonderful Jewish woman whom I love and had a son who I am told is Jewish according to Orthodox law. I became fascinated with this topic when I stumbled accross websites on the internet which were branded as “anti-semitic” but which nonetheless seemed to be the only place where certain things were acknowledged such as the fact that so many US federal appointees are Jewish dual citizens of Israel. I admit that I was terrified when I began to look at these websites as if I was looking at pornography or as if I might somehow be as guilty as any NAZI concentration camp guard who shoveled Jews into ovens. In any case, this is a subject which needs to be discussed openly, especially by US Jews. If not, I too am afraid the consequences will be dire. This is something that could affect my family, also.

  8. Marilyn Shepherd says:

    Jeff Halper, an Israeli peace campaigner came to Australia last month and he got treated the same way by the ziocons in Australia. Now we have to get some perspective here – there are precisely 120,000 people who claim to be jewish and almost all of them were born in Australia. Some claim to be holocaust survivors and get very pissed off when I point out that they were in Australia years before the war so could not have survived anything at all.

    Then they become enraged when I point out that for all their hatred of Palestinians the land was Palestine and as far as I am aware Palestine was never cancelled as a country.

    Then I get all the anti-semetic crap so I point out that there is no such thing and they foam at the mouth.

    Mind you, most of the jews in Australia are terrific, compassionate and humanist. They advocate here for Palestinian, Iranian, Iraqi and Afghan muslim refugees, they are the legal rights and human rights activists and campaigners, the lawyers who work pro bono for the aborigines, refugees and the poor.

    They have no interest in Israel, they are Australians whose forefathers fought alongside Palestinians in Palestine in 2 world wars.

    It was Britain who sold out the Palestinians and that is a disgrace pointed out forcefully by Sir Gerald Kaufmann during the latest massacre in Gaza.

    Cohen is a bit of fluff who decided a couple of years ago that the political “left” were done and over with.

    Humph to him I say, patronising little prat.

  9. […] To listen to Atzmon confronted with a outraged Jewish member of the audience click here   To listen to a disappointed member of the audience click here   To link to Aaronovitch confronted with a Jewish member of the audience click here   To listen to Aaronovitch's closing remarks click here   To listen to Atzmon's closing remarks  click here SEE ALSO: Gilad Atzmon's report – http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/04/07/gilad-atzmon-aaronovitchs-tantrum-and-the-demolition-of-jew… […]

  10. Gilad says:

    @Michael
    Michael
    You indeed have a very good reason to be terrified

    However, as you can see, it is all out in the open . We bring it up so everyone can see it.

  11. AnneBeck says:

    Bravo!

    I do so weary of the term, “Anti-Semite”, as I am quite sure it does not apply to me, either.
    Now, if someone (anyone) wants to accuse me of anti-Zionism, I would have to also AGREE.
    And, WHY would I be pro-Zion// pro-Israel?

    I am, after all, a HUMANIST.
    Thanks for a great post. Wish I could have been there!

  12. FYI – a definition of anti-Semitism by Michael Neumann:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann0604.html

    I am sure most here have read this essay, but for the others: check it out. Great reading.

  13. asiswhen says:

    nice one gilad, you are brave to endure those hateweavers.. i will try to channel your strength at passover tonight!

  14. whodareswings says:

    Are there any writers currently investigating the influence of Talmudic law on Constitutional law in the USA as it applies to the communitarianization and Europeanization of American society? I stumbled on an essay delivered at Harvard University on “The Emergence of Jewish Law in Postmodernist Legal Theory” by Suzzane Last Stone: http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/Gruss/stone.html This led to the discovery that there are two endowed chairs at the Harvard Law School devoted to promoting academic symposiums on subjects like “Jewish Law and Modernity.” Street level “anti-Semites” like Dieudonne M’Bala M’Bala in Paris have been making comparisons between EU style communitarianism and Judaism without actually looking at the possible slow replacement of Christian culture based civil law with Talmudic law in the New World Order. As more individual rights are sacrificed in the name of the good of the community ( the war on terrorism etc) I wonder if anyone is examining and reporting to lay readers on a drift towards the Halacha in Western legal thought..

  15. […] or else you are called anti-Semitic even if you are a Semite yourself (read articles on a recent discussion of anti-Semitism by Gilad Atzmon) and you will be fought in every way […]

  16. Ariadna Theokopoulos says:

    Dear Gilad,
    I have been reading you with admiration for quite a while now (besides enjoying your jazz).
    I admire your total integrity, your keen analyses and your lucid expositions, as well as your talent for magnificent satire (the Guide). I admire your profound humanism.
    I am sorry to say that this is the first article of yours I have read that contains an exaggeration so gross as to be close to qualifying as a—sorry–lie. I am bringing it to your attention in hopes that in the future you will resist whatever motivates you to say such things (false modesty, old-fashioned propitiation of the audience). Please cease and desist. Here is what offended me as patently false:
    “my English is rather broken, my grammar is faulty, my resources are limited, in spite of me being sluggish and slightly messy.”
    With sincere admiration, and long live sluggishness and messiness, if that’s what you call it.
    Ariadna

  17. Gilad says:

    @Ariadna Theokopoulos

    Ariandna
    it is the true, in fact i don’t speak English at all. I have managed to memorise a lot of text :)

    Thanks so much for your attention.
    I used to say that we will win. I allow myself to say that we are winning already.

    Peace
    Gilad

  18. Gilad says:

    @asiswhen

    In case passover was indeed tonight. I celebrated it with the Blockheads :)
    Peace
    G

  19. Niki Raapana says:

    @whodareswings,
    Yes.
    http://nord.twu.net/acl/talmudiclaw.html
    http://nord.twu.net/acl/commlaw.html

    @Gilad,
    i’ve been following your work for several years now and have appreciated your insight and frankness. My studies of Zionism and Talmudic Law caused a great backlash against me, just for wanting to know what it is. I’m continously labeled an anti semite by the hard core Christian Right, and I have been required to remove references to Talmudic Law and Etzioni’s mystical militant Zionist history from articles published at newswithviews. I tried to use as many good references and sources at the ACL as I could find, and your name is among them.

    I can’t listen to the audio files, but I am uplifted by the story of what happened to you at Oxford. While I am not in agreement with your support for the UN international (communitarian) concept of Human Rights, I am in full agreement with you that the Zionists hide their crimes behind religion (that may or may not even be Judaism) and use the Jewish people to achive Jewish goals (that may not even benefit the Jews). Not all Jews are equal either, are they? What a confusing topic Israel was for me and you’ve helped clear some of the murkiness away. That you are a man of integrity and true grit is a real bonus to all principled anti Zionists. I first studied Zionism because the founder of the Communitarian Network, Werner Falk, changed his name to Amitai Etzioni, which means Tree of Knowledge from Zion. What a long strange trip it’s been.

  20. Gilad says:

    @Niki Raapana

    @Gilad,

    I’m continously labeled an anti semite by the hard core Christian Right,

    G: this must be a good thing.

    While I am not in agreement with your support for the UN international (communitarian) concept of Human Rights,

    G: Where did you find my supportfor any UN concept of human right. I am an orthodox Kantian. If anything, I wrote against 48 human right declaration.

    Werner Falk, changed his name to Amitai Etzioni, which means Tree of Knowledge from Zion. What a long strange trip it’s been.

    G: yep, i followed this character a bit…i am not so sure about your translation… i’ve to think about it…

  21. Mary Rizzo says:

    Niki is one of the best researchers I have ever seen. I think her work is groundbreaking and important. She opened a whole level to information to me, and I highly recommend all to read her work on Communitarianism. She and I are supposed to do some more work on Etzioni, who she is an expert on, and it will be very important for the PTT readers to be exposed to who this person is and what kind of plans he has for everyone.

  22. Ofir says:

    @Gilad – An edited debate. Interesting…

    Even with all the edits, it’s obvious that Aaronovitz doesn’t even bother to debate. And he makes it pretty clear.

    Sometimes in a debate, there’s no need to make a point. Simply underlining the nonsense the other side is saying is enough.

    Me thinks the Palestinians deserve a better spokesperson.

  23. wolfhound says:

    @whodareswings
    Your post seems to indicate that you haven’y actually read, orshould I say understood, to lecture that you quote.
    Your post is a conspiracy theory.

  24. Sara says:

    Ofir who are you to pontificate on what kind of spokesperson the Palestinians deserve?

    Though I must say, you could certainly use a far more effective one that Aaronovitch.

    The audio is not edited at all. If Aaronovitch comes across as an aggressive hysteric, then consider this is what he is. Don’t blame the cameraman because you look ugly in the photograph.

  25. Mary Rizzo says:

    something that came to our inbox:

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    On the 1st of April I attended the Sunday Times Literary festival held at Oxford University. The discussion group comprised David Aaronovitch (journalist) , Nick Cohen (journalist) and Gilad Atzmon (musician and writer). The topic ‘The new anti-semetism). The Chairman was Martin Bell, the well known and respected BBC correspondent. Given the illustrious setting and the distinquished sponsor of the festival I had expected an interesting an objective discussion of this sensitive topic. However I was disappointed and was, instead, treated to a diatribe by Mr Aaronovitch and Mr Cohen against Mr Atzmon. Mr Aaronvitch used most of his alloted time to quote verbatim from some of Mr Atzmon’s writings but in such an emotional and theatrical way I doubt that any member of the audience could really comprehend the views and opinions of Mr Atzmon although it is possible that some might have been stimulated to do some research.

    I am not going to attempt a detailed description or analysis of each of the speakers but would like to say that given Mr Atzmon’s lineage and background he should be commended for his honest and frank views on the situation in the Middle East in particular on the reprehensible behaviour of the Israeli government against the Palestinian people. He is a lone voice speaking in the wilderness. This surely is the nub of the matter, and one which Mr Atzmon strove to illustrate, namely that the actions of the Israeli government might be seen to be a factor in colouring the views of ordinary people everywhere to Jews who could be seen to be sympathetic to Israeli Govenment policy towards the Palestinian people and this could be a possible cause of antipathy towards some Jewish people.

    In view of the history of the Jewish people it is surprising that the Israeli government should act in such a barbaric way towards their Palestinian cousins.

    Yours sincerely

    Roland Fernades

  26. bozh says:

    to an overwhelming number of ashk’m, antisemitism [or better yet, anti-ashkenazim] exists per se; not in any wise connected to ashk’c real or perceived shortcomings or crimes.
    and most ashk’c voelken discriminate against jews/arabs; the latter, unlike the euro-asians, being shemitic.

    can die voelken get dumber than that? yes, it can, as their invasion of palestine shows and subsequent crimes against shemites prove that the greatest discriminators and haters of other folks are the isaelis and world jewry.

    but guess who complains most about racism? the ‘jews’, the antigoyists, of course. Ashk’m are repeating the horrors of their fellow cultists, the hebrews, with which present ‘jews’ have little or no connection.

    hebrews cldn’t stand middianites; then came amelekites’ turn; then canaanitic people had to be destroyed; babylon was hated; so was tyre, amonites, noamites, philistines, hittites, persians, et al.

    so, it get’s dumber even more!

  27. AnneBeck says:

    And, suddenly (yet late?) the ziocons rear their ugly heads.
    To accuse Gilad or anyone of editing these postings (esp these audio posts) is grasping at straws. it is what it is and it is hateful.
    Funniest thing to ME (oh, and I used to BE on the side of Israel, until the latest, “cast lead”).. is that the Zionistae, both Christian and Jewish, have come so late to the party. Why is that? And, what ultimately made you show? Did you believe that your hate-filled speech would possibly make anyone change their minds?
    How about catching more [flies] with sugar than with vinegar.. (or white phosphorus or dime)?
    Yep; these tactics no longer work…. when ones’ eyes and ears are opened to the TRUTH. Your explanations are futile.

  28. Gilad says:

    @AnneBeck

    In fact Ann. they are really quiet about it all, for a good reason I guess. They all know that the audio is genuine.

    They know what happened there, they know that it was bad news. They put an enormous pressure on Oxford uni before the festival but they were totaly rejected.

    The battle is now set. It is Zion Vs Humanity….or alternatively Zionism Vs Humanism or even just Tribalism Vs Universalism. . It is not about left and right, it is not political. It is ethical, something that is foreign to the Neocon/Ziocon discourse.

  29. […] Gilad Atzmon, Palestine think-tank […]

  30. AnneBeck says:

    @Gilad
    Yes, Gilad.
    This (Zion v. Humanist/Humanism) is the concept I have been trying to get through the thick skulls of, especially, the Christian Zionists (an idea I don’t believe I will ever comprehend) on another site. And, of course, their standard retort is: “anti-semite, you!!!!” At this point, I have to laugh, or I’d remain frustrated and angry ALL of the time.

    Again, I appreciate this site; this “think tank”, as it is one instrument I have used in order to get some, who were also where I was some short months ago, to understand what Israel/ZIon/IDF IS all about. Some have opened their minds. Others (bigots) are a lost cause. Would that those willing to understand will outnumber those who won’t, if they don’t already. I now concentrate my efforts on Barack Obama, hoping that he can truly be the “change” the Palestinians and other Arabs need.

    I am looking forward to more of your postings!
    Well done.

  31. Tarik Hussein says:

    Gilad, although I am nearly always on your side, I must take issue with your logic on Iraq:

    “It is obviously understandable and expectable that two Zionist Londoners would fail to grasp the true will of the Iraqi people.”

    So do you grasp it then? No, the true will of the Iraqi people should be expressed in FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS, not in neocon discourse, not in anti-neocon discourse. This is by and large possible today! In the long run, this will STRENGTHEN Iraq. Zionists would prefer the Arab world to remain steeped in medieval dictatorships, not to make progress towards dynamic and free societies that challenge Jewish supremacy.

    I supported the removal of Saddam, NOT because I had any illusion of the “legality” (both Saddam’s power and the invasion were based on force, pure and simple), but because I actually believe the Iraqi people will be better off in the long run. I did underestimate the US administration’s ability to screw things up with arrogant strategy, but it is not reasonable to lay the blame for all Iraqi-on-Iraqi killings on the US.

    After all, the US is not trying to get Iraqis to emigrate to make room for American settlers, but have left the government and future in the Iraqis own hands.

  32. ByTheWay says:

    @Tarik Hussein@Tarik Hussein – The typical ameronazi “progressive”…

  33. AnneBeck says:

    @ByTheWay

    I want to commend you on a couple of points:
    1,, what you said about American govt (mainly right-wing Bushies) screwing up Iraq so badly, and,
    2., U.S. not trying to make room for American settlers in Iraq, as opposed to Israeli land-theivery..

    Both points are valid, though as I watched the b.s. story (and I mean mutliple LIES) told to American people in order to convince us (and our reps) to enter into this war was NO surprise to me, whatsoever. Perhaps it is because I knew ole W long before he ever entered office; when he was palling around with Pahlavi from Iran. As a Texan, I also had to live longer “under” him, though he really didn’t do a lot as governor other than run for president. I expected a war within 6 months of W taking office, and I was (almost) right, I mean, I was right about the war(s); I merely but barely missed on timing. And, the screw-up was not a surprise to me and to many (about 50 percent) of ALL Americans.

    But, as far as the comparison of America’s war with Iraq (and Afghanistan) vs. Israel’s war with Palestine, yes. I agree. We don’t want their land; we seem to *only* want their minds (or souls as some would submit).

  34. AnneBeck says:

    OOps. My last response was actually to be directed to Tarik Hussein, not “by the way”.

  35. Tarik Hussein says:

    @Anne Beck and others.

    What is an ameronazi “progressive???

    You see, I really did NOT support the invasion in Iraq out of concern for the strategic geopolitical interests of the USA, or because I wanted a war to glorify President Bush. And as it turns it, the effect has been the opposite, as it has actually weakened US power and discredited Bush, so this should be a good reason for some of you to also celebrate the invasion!

    Anyway, what matters to me is Iraq’s interests. The situation today is complex and dangerous. But I prefer that to the deadlocked stranglehold on absolutely all levers of change that held sway in the Saddam years, and which was weakening Iraq, the Arab world and by extension the Palestinians.

    If anyone could have come up with another way of dislodging Saddam, that would have been better, but no one did.

  36. […] with a crash, it was actually one of the most amusing moments in recent political public events. We got to hear, and in some cases, to see the man who considers himself to be an iconoclast living the role of the […]

  37. AnneBeck says:

    Originally Posted By Tarik Hussein@Anne Beck and others.

    What is an ameronazi “progressive??

    If anyone could have come up with another way of dislodging Saddam, that would have been better, but no one did.

    HAHA. Tarik. I barely know what an “ameronazi” is, though I can figure it out by separating the terms, Amero (as in american) and nazi (well, that speaks for itself). I surely have NO idea what a “progressive” ameronazi would be! Could there BE such a thing? That was “by the way’s” term, as I recall.
    Now, I know we have skinhead-nazis in the US and in Europe, and, yes; they want ALL Jews dead.. but they ALSO want ALL Muslims and all blacks and all (fill in the blank— anyone not like them) dead, too. So the utilising the word, “progressive” as an adjective or a NOUN in this instance seems out of place to me.. I mean, what could BE more backwards and NON-progressive than nazi-ism, whether connected to the Amercans or to any other countrymen?

    But, again; regarding George Bush AND the removal of Saddam Hussein for power; I agree. Bush could not have screwed this up any worse.. Yet, from what I understand (from my Iraqi friends and from watching the dancing in the street in Iraq when the Husseins were taken down– like the boys and men kicking “his” head about), Saddam gone is a good thing. HOW it was done; not so much. The fact that we are STILL In Iraq and battling civilians there (insurgents come of war, these citizens of Iraq are not insurgents— in my opinion, they are people defending their homes, families, and land…, as anyone would do).. is SO totally wrong, also, It IS time (past time) that we hand Iraq over to the people of Iraq. I only wish our ENS would consider this– now.

  38. AnneBeck says:

    Originally Posted By AnneBeck

    Originally Posted By Tarik Hussein@Anne Beck and others.

    What is an ameronazi “progressive??

    If anyone could have come up with another way of dislodging Saddam, that would have been better, but no one did.

    HAHA. Tarik. I barely know what an “ameronazi” is, though I can figure it out by separating the terms, Amero (as in american) and nazi (well, that speaks for itself). I surely have NO idea what a “progressive” ameronazi would be! Could there BE such a thing? That was “by the way’s” term, as I recall.
    Now, I know we have skinhead-nazis in the US and in Europe, and, yes; they want ALL Jews dead.. but they ALSO want ALL Muslims and all blacks and all (fill in the blank— anyone not like them) dead, too. So the utilising the word, “progressive” as an adjective or a NOUN in this instance seems out of place to me.. I mean, what could BE more backwards and NON-progressive than nazi-ism, whether connected to the Amercans or to any other countrymen?

    But, again; regarding George Bush AND the removal of Saddam Hussein for power; I agree. Bush could not have screwed this up any worse.. Yet, from what I understand (from my Iraqi friends and from watching the dancing in the street in Iraq when the Husseins were taken down– like the boys and men kicking “his” head about), Saddam gone is a good thing. HOW it was done; not so much. The fact that we are STILL In Iraq and battling civilians there (insurgents come of war, these citizens of Iraq are not insurgents— in my opinion, they are people defending their homes, families, and land…, as anyone would do).. is SO totally wrong, also, It IS time (past time) that we hand Iraq over to the people of Iraq. I only wish our ENS would consider this– now.

    (oops, again).. Should have been “removing Saddam.. FROM power, not FOR power”…

  39. ByTheWay says:

    @AnneBeck – Another Tarik Hussein’s soul mate…

  40. AnneBeck says:

    Originally Posted By ByTheWay@AnneBeck – Another Tarik Hussein’s soul mate…

    What the hell, bytw? I barely know Tarik. I can agree and disagree with people without disliking them. But, when the name-calling starts (and esp when not explained at ALL), I tire of that person, very quickly.

    So, btw what the hell IS an “ameronazi-progressive” supposed to be? HOW do you come about labeling anyone as such? Was that directed toward anyone in particular? Or, are you just piping-up when you should be piping-down?
    Yeesh..